E-Training Collars

There's no reason to use an e-training collar on a dog. How in he77 did old-time trainers, hunting guys, herding guys train a dog?  They managed without electricity   Some managed way better (more humanely") than others, of course. I'd say there's no place especially on a dog doing bite work.

I'd rather yell at my dogs!  I know, not very positive training.  I know a lot of hunting people use them for distance (long distances, hundred of yards away) work.  I don't know how the old-timers trained for that.  Wish I could talk to some old guy that trained bird dogs.

My first trainer, an old timer who occasionally used prongs --- and only temporarily never long time --- and taught 75% positive, 25% corrections --- never would have used an E collar.  And she was very what you all would call "old school" in that she'd use collar pops.  She didn't do clicker, she used "Yes" or a squeaky noise to capture behavior. Excited talking, luring, etc.  She could "read" a dog better than darn near anyone I've ever met.

She'd say if you have to resort to shocking a dog you must have crappy communication or the dog is close to being beyond help. We had some crazy, crazy dogs in class.  We learned to work around crazy and we kept moving, kept heeling, kept doing halt-sits, halt-downs, down stays, etc.  We'd switch dogs all the time so you'd learn to work with different dogs of different temperaments, sizes and abilities  We'd walk at least a mile to three in class. She treated every classmate like they were going to compete in Obedience.  As a result our "pet" dogs were pretty darn well behaved and a lot went into actual competition!

She worked with blind, deaf and disabled students. She herself was disabled. All dogs in her classes were expected to pass: CGC, TDI and go for an Obedience title. She believed in making a commitment to classes and your dog. She believed in out-of-sight stays and the Emergency Recall!

She taught me a lot and knew a lot even though she wasn't "all positive."  She was however always learning so I imagine she may have gone to all positives or nearly all.

I know somebody now who trains K9 dogs in Atlanta.  Her dogs work for treats, toys, tug and to play with the sleeve.  And they are BIG powerful European-style shepherd dogs.....  Amazing off switches. I got to see them work and then play, hang out and cuddle with them.

A real good working dog ---- whether they are doing bite work, S&R or herding has an OFF switch.  You can't "E-train" a dog into having one.  Old timers used to cull dogs who didn't have an off switch.  Sounds so harsh, I know.

You can't "E-train" a dog into wanting to work for you.  Some dogs have more of a "please you" temperament, some don't. I love a willing, brave, curious, food-motivated, yet slightly soft dog.  I know what I can work with and what is really super challenging for me to work with. I know what my strengths and weaknesses are in terms of ability and physical strength.

You can't "E-train" willing.